EMILY KWONG, HOST:
Prior to her role as NPR’s London correspondent, Lauren Frayer was stationed in Mumbai, covering India.
LAUREN FRAYER, BYLINE: In India, I was always conscious of being a white Westerner in a country with an Anglo-colonial past. So, when I prepared for an assignment to cover the U.K., I had a perspective of the U.K. through Indian eyes, through the eyes of the colonized.
KWONG: Oh, that’s interesting.
FRAYER: And yeah. Upon arriving in London, I felt like I was delving into the core, the origin of empire.
KWONG: 2023 was an intriguing year in the U.K. The British prime minister at the time, Rishi Sunak, had Indian heritage, and the Scottish leader, Humza Yousaf, had Pakistani descent.
FRAYER: When the British Empire relinquished colonial India in 1947, it divided…
KWONG: Yes.
FRAYER: …Colonial India into India and Pakistan.
KWONG: Right.
FRAYER: So, upon my arrival, there was a movement for Scottish independence, and there were jests about Brits of Indian and Pakistani descent partitioning the United Kingdom if Scotland were to secede.
KWONG: Lauren’s initial expectations for her new assignment were to explore the legacy of the British Empire. For this edition of Reporter’s Notebook, I wanted to examine how those expectations evolved. One of the first stories Lauren covered in London was the coronation of King Charles III and his wife Camilla.
FRAYER: I arrived in the U.K. about a week before the coronation, and this became my inaugural story.
KWONG: No pressure.
FRAYER: I immersed myself in learning about royal traditions and ceremonies. I had to familiarize myself with items like the orb and the scepter, the 17th-century golden ball and rod that the king wields. It resembles a magic wand. To bridge my previous coverage in India with my new assignment, I brought along insights about the Koh-i-Noor diamond. This diamond traversed Mughal, Persian, Afghan, and Punjabi Sikh empires before being bestowed – or rather seized – from a Punjabi child prince by Queen Victoria. Upon my arrival, I visited the Crown Jewels in the Tower of London to behold it.
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UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Which was recently…
FRAYER: So, I found myself on a conveyor belt, gliding past the crown jewels – pearls, diamonds, crosses, rubies, emeralds. And there it was, the Koh-i-Noor. It sparkled like a walnut in size.
I mingled with South Asian tourists who passed by this diamond whispering, “that’s ours.”
KWONG: Impressive.
FRAYER: Even the Taliban claims ownership of this diamond. It serves as a symbol of anti-colonial resentment. Queen Camilla refrained from wearing it at the coronation.
KWONG: Instead, she adorned a different crown with distinct diamonds.
FRAYER: It was deemed too delicate to display. Yes.
KWONG: It’s been nearly three years since you set foot in London and commenced this journey. Your coverage has taken a different trajectory than anticipated, but it seems to have evolved rapidly in the past year. At what point did you realize the extent of these transformations?
FRAYER: It should have dawned on me sooner, but it became more evident in recent months, especially with Trump’s reelection. The U.K. occupies a midway position geographically, culturally, and politically between the U.S. and Europe – strategically located in the middle of the Atlantic region. In 2020, Brexit materialized as the U.K. honored a public decision to depart from the European Union and subsequently diverted its focus towards fostering ties with the United States. This bond is often referred to as…
KWONG: Yes.
FRAYER: …The special relationship. However, with the perceived erratic policies of the Trump administration, the U.K. finds itself in a precarious position.
KWONG: How have you adapted to accommodate this new reality where tensions between the U.S. and longstanding European allies are palpable?
FRAYER: NPR’s International Desk launched a series titled Changing World Order. In one of our podcast episodes, I engaged in a discussion with my colleague Eyder Peralta in Mexico regarding the implications of these shifts for everyone.
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EYDER PERALTA: I’ll play the skeptic here. Perhaps we will look back on this as a regression to a world where might dictates right, where power and violence prevail.
KWONG: Does this signify a regression to the past?
FRAYER: Some of my sources suggest a return to 19th-century imperial diplomacy – a realm characterized by robust power dynamics and great power rivalry. The British Empire once dominated this sphere centuries ago. Currently, as a midsize nation, the U.K. grapples with these dynamics.
KWONG: Lauren, another significant event you covered this year was President Trump’s official visit to the U.K. Can you recount that experience and shed light on reporting on Trump alongside Prime Minister Keir Starmer, who, publicly at least, exhibits warmth towards Trump and aligns with him?
FRAYER: Starmer adopts a strategy that some refer to as appeasement with Trump. They engage in frequent phone conversations. Trump visited the U.K. twice last summer, in September. Starmer and Trump socialized at a Trump golf resort in Scotland. Starmer warmly interacts with him, refrains from contradicting him, and endeavors to maintain a cordial relationship. Although there are instances where Starmer seems visibly uneasy beside Trump, particularly during the Scotland visit, even his wife appeared discomforted.
KWONG: Beyond the corridors of power, how do ordinary individuals perceive this juncture and the evolving global order?
FRAYER: There’s a sense of apprehension among the populace. This era is fraught with uncertainty. Former officials often provide candid insights on the record. Recently, I conversed with George Robertson, a former secretary general of NATO, known as Lord Robertson in the U.K. He serves in the House of Lords and previously held the position of U.K. secretary of state for defense. We deliberated on this return to 19th-century great power rivalry.
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GEORGE ROBERTSON: That was an era where inter-state disputes were typically resolved through warfare and conflict rather than dialogue and negotiation. It is imperative for President Xi, President Kim Jong-Un, the Ayatollahs in Iran, and President Donald J. Trump to recognize the benefits of multilateralism and acknowledge that the alternative entails a resurgence of open warfare and a lawless international environment.
FRAYER: Note the individuals he compares…
KWONG: Yes.
FRAYER: …Trump to.
KWONG: Remarkable.
FRAYER: This perspective contrasts starkly with Starmer’s stance.
KWONG: Right. And the acuity of the observation. How do everyday individuals, whose voices seldom grace the headlines, view these developments?
FRAYER: Trump does not command admiration here. During his earlier visit, Londoners floated an enormous orange baby Trump blimp over the city. Even individuals leaning towards the right in this region harbor limited enthusiasm for Trump. A surge in support for the far-right anti-immigrant party, Reform U.K., has been observed. Nevertheless, even its leader, Nigel Farage, faces scrutiny due to his association with Trump. While he may secure election, it won’t be on account of his ties with Trump but despite them.
This year commemorates the 250th anniversary of the U.S. Declaration of Independence. I intend to delve into how the British perceive this historic separation, viewing it as the initial crack in the British Empire’s armor.
KWONG: It all comes full circle to empire.
FRAYER: Perhaps I will get the opportunity to explore that after all.
KWONG: I eagerly anticipate that. What lingering inquiries steer your reporting endeavors?
FRAYER: Will there be a rupture in the special relationship between the U.S. and the U.K.? Will British leaders adopt a wait-and-see approach until the conclusion of Trump’s tenure, hoping for a restoration of previous relations? Has irreparable damage been inflicted? Can Europe safeguard its interests?
The U.K. is in the midst of reevaluating its global role, which inevitably involves confronting its imperial past. Will the royal family issue an apology for benefiting from the slave trade for centuries? Will they address the Epstein scandal? Will the United Kingdom remain unified? While Scottish independence was initially dismissed, signs point towards an eventual Irish reunification.
I often view the U.K. as a blueprint or model for America. Once the wealthiest, most potent military force with a sprawling empire, the U.K. has downsized yet preserved its democratic principles. This narrative offers instructive insights for other colossal entities witnessing a decline in their global influence.
KWONG: Lauren Frayer, international correspondent for NPR, thank you for sharing your insights on Reporter’s Notebook.
FRAYER: Thank you for having me, Emily.
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