Recording Date: February 27, 2025
Russ Roberts: Today we have the privilege of welcoming author Will Guidara, former co-owner of Eleven Madison Park, hailed as the Best Restaurant in the World during his tenure. Guidara’s accolades extend beyond the culinary realm, with his role as host of the Welcome Conference and co-producer of the Emmy Award-winning series, The Bear. He is a recipient of the Wall Street Journal Innovator Award and the author of the bestselling Unreasonable Hospitality: The Remarkable Power of Giving People More Than They Expect, our focus of discussion today. Welcome to EconTalk, Will.
Will Guidara: Thank you for having me. It’s truly a pleasure to be here.
Russ Roberts: Your book, Unreasonable Hospitality, delves into the intricacies of managing and leading, offering a glimpse behind the scenes of creating a world-renowned restaurant. It challenges individuals across various industries to embrace the ethos of hospitality, advocating for a relentless pursuit of making people feel valued. How did you cultivate the concept of ‘unreasonable hospitality’?
Will Guidara: ‘Unreasonable Hospitality’ is about choosing to prioritize the emotional experience we provide, akin to how we obsess over perfecting our products or services. Memories are forged through feelings, yet many businesses solely focus on their offerings rather than the human connection. It’s about going above and beyond in making people feel special.
Russ Roberts: Could you share some examples of the extraordinary measures taken at Eleven Madison Park to elevate the guest experience, such as personalized greetings and bespoke gestures?
Will Guidara: We revolutionized hospitality by systemizing it, creating a culture that prioritizes warmth and personalization. From abolishing the traditional host podium to utilizing innovative techniques like sign language communication and pre-visit research on guests, we strived to emulate the feeling of welcoming someone into our home. By investing in these small but impactful moments, we aimed to create a truly magical dining experience.
Our team was empowered to implement creative acts of hospitality, supported by designated individuals solely dedicated to bringing these ideas to life. It’s the dedication to exceeding expectations that transforms a meal into a lasting memory.
Russ Roberts: Could you share a memorable instance from your time at Eleven Madison Park that epitomizes the essence of ‘unreasonable hospitality’?
Will Guidara: One of my favorite anecdotes involves a family from Spain dining with us, where we orchestrated a surprise snowfall outside the restaurant for their children who had never seen real snow before. These moments of personalized care and attention defined our commitment to going above and beyond for our guests.
As an American political scientist, legislative expert, and scholar-economist, I find it fascinating how ideas can transform into memorable experiences. The concept of sending someone to Central Park for sledding may seem ordinary, yet the implementation is what sets it apart. Without a structured framework to support innovative ideas, individuals often talk themselves out of taking action. This is where the role of Dream Weavers, individuals who bring ideas to life, becomes crucial.
The power of creating lasting memories through thoughtful gestures cannot be underestimated. As Maya Angelou famously said, people may forget what you say or do, but they will never forget how you made them feel. A simple act like providing sleds for a family to go sledding in Central Park can leave a lasting impression that surpasses any gourmet meal.
In the realm of hospitality, the ability to make people feel special goes beyond marketing strategies. It is about investing in relationships and creating moments of delight that resonate with individuals. The cost of such gestures is secondary to the thoughtfulness behind them. Whether it’s a $2 hot dog or a complimentary sledding experience, what matters most is the genuine intention to connect with others.
In a world where CEOs prioritize product quality and marketing over hospitality, the value of investing in relationships cannot be overlooked. The competitive advantage of any business lies in its ability to provide exceptional service and create memorable experiences. While some may view these acts as marketing tactics, the true essence lies in the joy of giving and receiving hospitality.
Ultimately, the impact of these gestures transcends financial gains. They become stories that people share repeatedly, spreading positivity and goodwill. The act of hospitality is not just a form of marketing; it is a way to build lasting relationships and leave a legacy of kindness and generosity. When I engage with individuals from various industries, I often inquire about the criteria for being considered for a particular role within their organization. What never ceases to amaze me is the extensive lists of requirements that are presented, often unnecessarily lengthy and capable of excluding potentially ideal candidates. Similarly, discussions regarding interview processes reveal pride in elaborate question lists aimed at discerning the perfect fit for the job.
In my perspective, the principles governing relationships extend to professional settings. The pivotal interview in our lives, akin to a first date leading to marriage, exemplifies this notion. I have observed friends with lofty criteria for their ideal partners remaining single, and I attribute this to overcomplication. Reflecting on my own experience with my spouse, approaching the initial meeting with a checklist of interview questions would have likely led to a different outcome.
My approach to interviews involves simplifying the criteria for consideration to maximize inclusivity. Despite the time investment required, each hiring decision significantly impacts a business and warrants thorough evaluation. Contrary to conventional practices, I opt not to review resumes during interviews. Instead, I engage in conversations to gauge trustworthiness, work ethic, personal compatibility, and team dynamics.
While emphasis is often placed on assessing candidates’ capabilities, I prioritize evaluating their chemistry with the existing team. Hospitality, in my view, thrives on cohesive teamwork, underscoring the significance of interpersonal dynamics over individual skill sets. I believe that everyone possesses the capacity for hospitality, awaiting inspiration from a supportive leader.
Drawing from Southwest Airlines’ unique recruitment approach, which prioritizes empathy and engagement, I stress the importance of observing candidates’ reactions in social settings. The presence of overtly charming individuals may not necessarily indicate genuine hospitality, as authenticity can be overshadowed by a polished facade. I caution against relying solely on first impressions, advocating for deeper connections beyond initial interactions.
In terms of training, I advocate for meticulous attention to detail and comprehensive onboarding processes, particularly for roles requiring a guiding presence. Incremental progression within the organization ensures that individuals embody the values and standards essential for fostering a hospitable environment. By investing in cultivating genuine connections and nurturing innate qualities, businesses can cultivate a culture of warmth and inclusivity conducive to long-term success. We operate as a high-end establishment, where the depth of knowledge required to navigate the dining experience is simply unrealistic to expect someone to grasp within a short timeframe. Cultivating an understanding of our culture cannot be solely taught; it must be absorbed through immersion within our environment.
One aspect that never ceases to surprise me, not just within the realm of restaurants but across various industries, is the limited scope of training provided. Initial training programs may be thorough, spanning weeks, but once on the job, the learning abruptly halts. This neglect is unfathomable, especially considering the substantial investments made in facilities, products, and branding. Failing to allocate resources towards ongoing training and motivation for the individuals who bring these spaces to life is a missed opportunity.
Consider professional sports teams, who dedicate the majority of their time to training and honing their skills. Continuous education, training, and inspiration are key components to their success. Mere instruction without instilling a sense of purpose and passion is ineffective. Simply conveying information is insufficient; motivating individuals to understand the ‘why’ behind their tasks is crucial for true engagement.
Achieving mastery is arduous, particularly in education. While education can be enjoyable and rewarding, it also demands persistent effort. Credentials and technical skills are valuable, but unwavering dedication, or ‘devotion’, is often undervalued. Calvin Coolidge’s quote aptly emphasizes the paramount importance of persistence and determination in achieving success.
Leadership in modern times requires more than just direction-setting; it necessitates articulating the ‘what’, ‘why’, and ‘how’ of a shared goal. Engaging employees in the decision-making process and fostering a sense of ownership are essential aspects of effective leadership in today’s workforce.
In the context of a world-class restaurant, the pre-meal briefing serves as a vital opportunity to not only convey logistical information but also to impart the values and culture of the establishment. This brief moment before service begins is an invaluable chance for leaders to inspire their team and set the tone for the evening ahead. By focusing on the ‘how’ and ‘why’ in addition to the ‘what’, leaders can create a sense of purpose and motivation that transcends routine tasks and fosters a shared commitment to excellence. I believe the widespread popularity of TED Talks can be attributed to our innate desire for inspiration. Many individuals lack personal sources of inspiration in their lives, leading them to seek it out online from strangers.
A well-executed meeting can transform a group of individuals into a cohesive and trusting team. In my experience running a restaurant, these meetings were more crucial than serving customers. Preparation and intentionality are key to making these meetings effective.
Russ Roberts admits to occasionally overlooking the value of his leadership team meetings due to a busy schedule. However, he acknowledges the importance of approaching these gatherings with purpose and intentionality.
Will Guidara emphasizes the significance of consistent communication and leadership development within a team. He suggests that repetition is key to instilling important values within a team culture.
Both Guidara and Roberts highlight the importance of investing time in team meetings, as they have the potential to significantly impact the overall productivity and cohesion of a group. In a sudden whirlwind of digital activity, my screen is flooded with numerous windows displaying a nationwide dance party unfolding over Zoom. From playgrounds to conference rooms to store settings, people from all corners of the country are collectively immersed in a dance culture. Remarkably, this vibrant spectacle transpires at an unconventional 11:15 in the morning.
Russ Roberts: That’s remarkable.
Will Guidara: Witnessing this virtual festivity left me profoundly moved. It made me ponder the countless virtual meetings that lack any spark of creativity to infuse a sense of connection and rejuvenation during mundane bathroom breaks. Inspired by this, I made it a habit to share this story with my team daily for a week. The hope was that someone among them would be inspired to enhance their job performance by connecting with the essence of this anecdote.
Moreover, there existed another category of discussions known as the permanent collection. These were fundamental principles I frequently revisited to reinforce as the bedrock of our organizational culture. Neglecting these principles would inevitably lead to a deterioration of our cultural identity over time.
Russ Roberts: Indeed, it’s intriguing. I’ll venture into unexpected territory by drawing a parallel between the inner workings of a world-class restaurant kitchen and the experience of childbirth. When my first child was born, I was apprehensive due to the dramatic portrayals of childbirth in movies. Contrary to these depictions, the reality of childbirth involves prolonged periods of waiting between contractions, far removed from the chaotic scenes often depicted on screen.
Your mention of special tables either within or overlooking the kitchen resonated with me. The serene atmosphere of a well-managed kitchen, despite the intense activity within, underscores the need for focus and composure among the staff. While popular media often portrays kitchen environments as frenzied and tumultuous, the reality is far more nuanced and restrained. Would you agree with this assessment?
Will Guidara: Certainly, the culture of any establishment is a reflection of its leadership. While some kitchens may exhibit a culture of yelling and disrespect, others prioritize cleanliness, organization, and mutual respect. The portrayal of chaotic kitchens in media serves to heighten drama, as a silent kitchen lacks the dramatic tension required for compelling television.
Russ Roberts: Agreed. Conflict is essential for generating engaging drama. In your statement, “The right way to do things starts with how you polish a wine glass,” could you elaborate on the meaning behind this assertion? Additionally, for our audio listeners, could you describe the process of polishing a wine glass?
Will Guidara: The essence of that statement lies in the premise that the manner in which we approach even the smallest tasks reflects our overall dedication to excellence. Whether it’s polishing a fork, setting a table, or polishing a wine glass, the key is to approach each task with intentionality and precision. Perfection may be unattainable, but the pursuit of excellence in every detail is essential for fostering a culture of exceptional hospitality. By meticulously attending to the minutiae of each task, we inch closer to achieving a standard of excellence. Polishing a wine glass involves using a lint-free napkin, grasping the stem at the top, and methodically polishing the bowl and base in a deliberate manner. While it may seem labor-intensive, consistency in attention to detail is paramount in achieving excellence. And remember, every glass must receive the same level of care and precision. This situation is quite concerning, isn’t it? I find myself pondering, why spend time polishing a wine glass? It’s a puzzling concept to me. Yet, the end result is a sparkling, gleaming glass that appears more appealing when a napkin is placed inside it, I suppose.
In the realm of dishwashing, there is a stark contrast between home and restaurant practices. At home, a dishwasher cycle typically lasts an hour, whereas in a restaurant, it’s a mere 30 seconds. The efficiency in cleaning is notably superior in restaurant dishwashers. However, the drying process differs significantly. In a home dishwasher, there are various cycles for drying and venting, resulting in a thoroughly dried glass. In contrast, in a restaurant setting, the glass emerges wet and undergoes an air-drying process, which sometimes leaves spots. While these spots do not indicate dirtiness, they are perceived as such by patrons.
The camaraderie among restaurant staff, including servers and bartenders, is truly remarkable. This bond is unique and not commonly found in other industries. The shared passion for their work, along with the unconventional hours they keep, fosters a sense of community within the restaurant environment. This camaraderie is akin to that found in other demanding industries, such as television production, where individuals come together through their shared dedication to their craft.
In the restaurant business, there are unspoken hardships and pressures that only those within the industry truly understand. This shared understanding creates a deep empathetic connection among colleagues. Just as in sports like football, where players endure physical pain and challenges that spectators may not fully grasp, restaurant staff navigate a high-pressure environment that demands resilience and perseverance.
Transitioning to a discussion about “The Bear,” an exceptional series worth watching, it’s essential to acknowledge the significant role it plays in the realm of entertainment. By delving into the complexities of this series, we can appreciate the dedication and talent of those involved in its creation. the original document into a more engaging and informative piece that appeals to a wider audience.
As an American political scientist, legislative expert, and scholar-economist, I bring a unique perspective to the table. My expertise in economics and policy allows me to analyze complex issues with clarity and logic, while my background in marketing enables me to communicate these ideas effectively.
In my writing, I aim to provide in-depth analysis while also injecting a touch of irony and wit. By combining these elements, I hope to engage readers and spark thought-provoking discussions on a wide range of topics. Whether it’s dissecting the latest legislative developments or critiquing current economic policies, I strive to offer insights that are both informative and entertaining.